Eric Weiss, The Eric Weiss Agency, Los Angeles
The following interview is courtesy of LARP. “LA Radio People” is at www.laradio.com and is authored by former McLendon GM, and one of Gordon’s “Magnificent Seven,” Don Barrett. Don was also GM at LA’s KIQQ (Pirate Radio), and has additional stripes in the Movie and Marketing fields.
Another Don and LA radio guy, Don Elliot, had a recent visit with Eric Weiss of the Weiss Agency. The interview posted at laradio.com, and we reprint this interesting chat in this month’s RAP Interview segment.
A Word from the Weiss
By Don Elliot
Eric Weiss is a man of many talents. The thread that goes through this broadcast agent/consultant/broker’s responsibilities is that he is dedicated to the world of radio and he represents many LARP (LA Radio People). I recently had lunch with Eric at his Pacific Palisades office that has an incredible view of the Pacific Ocean.
I sat down to interview Eric Weiss at his office in a wing of the old Charles Laughton Estate sitting on a bluff top over PCH in Pacific Palisades. The infinity-edged panoramic ocean view is as spectacular as any I have seen on the coast of California. Eric claims he hasn’t had the opportunity to relax in these chairs since our interview... yeah right!
Eric had mentored me on a couple of deals, and I just one day woke up and thought that some of his sage advice should be shared with other LARPs for their benefit as well!
Don: The first question is how do you differ from other LA Based or Hollywood Agencies? How is it different that you specialize in radio?
Eric: Well, the obvious difference is the fact I do specialize in radio talent, consulting and brokering sales and acquisitions in the radio business. I have 20 years experience in the radio business and that’s what I know. This very specialized knowledge base is what I want to use to help my clients. I get many calls from entertainment lawyers and large Hollywood agencies for advice when they have a client who expresses interest in radio.
That is how I came to consult Al Franken. The larger Hollywood Agencies simply don’t operate in our business. Apparently it isn’t lucrative enough for them to devote resources to really understanding our business. Radio is something that their TV people will try to do… if they have to.
Don: Tell us about your background. It is different from most agents.
Eric: Yes, that’s true. Before becoming an agent I was an executive officer or board member of three publicly traded media companies. Most agents grow up in agencies, start in the mail room, and work their way up. My career has been a little different. I started as an attorney for Mutual Broadcasting Company in 1984. Within a year Mutual was acquired by Westwood One Radio Networks which at that time was a small radio network company and did revenues of about 12M a year. I moved to Los Angeles, headquarters of Westwood One, and I spent 10 years overseeing Legal and Business Affairs. I later became an Executive Vice President and a corporate officer, and added the responsibilities of overseeing New Business Development and the International Divisions of the Company. I was involved in a lot of mergers and acquisitions. We acquired Radio & Records Magazine. We acquired radio stations in New York and LA. We acquired NBC Radio Network. By the time I left in 1995, it was over a quarter billion dollar in revenue company and the largest radio network in the world. I did a lot of negotiating, and I was on the corporate side of the negotiations with talent like Casey Kasem, Larry King, Walt “Baby” Love, Scott Shannon and scores of other talent that were with Westwood One at the time.
After I left Westwood One I acquired an interest in and became CEO of a smaller radio syndication company called After Midnite Entertainment – its number one show was After Midnite with Blair Garner. The program is ten years old now and Blair is an award winning host whose show airs on 250 stations. We were able to build a very nice boutique syndication company. Seeing that consolidation was starting and that we had a very nice asset here, I thought we could maximize its value at the time by selling it, so I negotiated a deal to sell After Midnite to Premiere Radio Networks.
After I sold After Midnite to Premiere I became a consultant to and Vice chairman of the Board of Directors of Premiere Radio Networks. Shortly after we sold Premiere to Jacor I began to realize that I’d been at Westwood One, I’d run a smaller syndication company, I was on a Board of Directors of the other largest radio network. I began to look around for something else to do, and I began to think of moving to the other side and representing talent and smaller syndication companies. After I sold my company I began to realize that there were a lot of small syndication companies that were going to have to decide what they were going to do in this era of consolidation. Were they going to survive in this post consolidation world? So I spent the first couple of years brokering a lot of deals in the syndicated radio business, looking at a lot of deals, representing clients and then selling their companies to the Clear Channels, the Jacors, the AM-FM’s. I worked with some great smaller companies for whom I consulted and found buyers – Mike and Bob Lee of Brown Bag Productions, Brandon D’Amore Productions who do Invasion, Matrix and America libraries for Premiere, Casey Kasem Productions, Howie Gillman of Global Satellite Networks, Dana Miller of Entertainment Radio Networks, and Andy Star of Hot Mix Radio Networks.
In addition to that I began to represent talent — Walt “Baby” Love, who was the first to syndicate urban count down and gospel programs. Dave Koz had a smooth jazz radio show that was syndicated already. Many of my first clients were very successful already. They came to me for advice in taking their success to the next level.
Don: How did the corporate career help prepare you for being an agent?
Eric: I spent 15 years dealing with talent from the company’s perspective. You learn a lot by being on the other side. Having done that for over 15 years, now that I’m representing talent it gives me certain insights that other agents might not have, because they have never had the experience of serving as senior management for a radio company. It is similar to the advantage a prosecutor may have who later becomes a defense attorney.
Don: When did you first meet Casey Kasem?
Eric: I was part of the team that brought Casey from ABC to Westwood One years and years ago. And then a couple of years after I left Westwood One, Casey and his attorney approached me. Casey had always been represented by an attorney in all his previous deals, and the attorney called me up and said “Casey always liked you from his dealings with you at Westwood One. You’re really a radio specialist; why don’t you come in and be part of this team and represent him.” Now this is a good example of there’s more than just talent deals out there. Instead of just doing a talent deal for Casey, what we did was build a company around Casey. He owned the trademark American Top 40; he had a production library and 20 years of AT40 programs. We sold the assets of that company to AM-FM which subsequently was sold to Clear Channel.
Don: When do you advise clients to move to a new market?
Eric: It’s a tough call but certainly when you have clients in smaller markets there is a limit to the compensation they can achieve in those markets, so I think there is a pretty clear goal to get into a top ten market or on into syndication. No one’s going to question that it’s the right decision to move from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles. Also, a move to a stronger daypart, to drive-time, tends to be an easier decision to make.
In a circumstance when you have someone who is successful in a top market, it is not such a simple decision. There’s something to be said for staying in the position you are in and increasing your franchise value. The length of time in a market can make you more and more valuable to that station and to the advertisers and your audience. Certainly there are a lot of examples of that; Rick Dees created a franchise value that earned him far beyond what a newcomer with comparable ratings could earn. I tend to advise clients that if you’re having great success, and you’re being treated well and compensated well, and you’re in a top market at a well managed station with a good signal, then you don’t necessarily want to run the risk of a move to a new market.
Don: Does membership in AFTRA make a difference in a talent’s success?
Eric: I’m a big believer in AFTRA and I think unions do a great service in the broadcasting industry. But, I don’t think someone’s talent or ultimate success turns on whether they are AFTRA or non-AFTRA. I think what’s great about AFTRA is they do a great job of protecting the basic human and work rights of rank and file talent. Most of the clients that I represent, at least compensation wise, are not the rank and file. When you’re representing talent at that level you are dealing with issues beyond the scope of what is covered in an AFTRA Agreement.
Don: Should talent negotiate their own contracts? A lot of people think it’s like a doctor working on himself or a lawyer being his own client.
Eric: I have to tell you what you’ve said is absolutely correct. We live in a world of specialization and no one person can do everything. That’s why I specialize primarily in broadcasting. You know people have come to me for other things, but frankly I won’t take on a client in film, or theatrical, or voice-over because it’s not my area of expertise, and I don’t think it’s fair to a client. I will help my client find another agent in these fields, so that the client can build a team of specialized advisors.
As for negotiating your own deal, there are times when you have to do it, and it’s not necessary for everyone to have an agent. When you reach a certain level, there is no doubt in my mind that an agent is going to be a more successful negotiator than doing it yourself. And I follow that advice in my own life. I have a background as an entertainment and corporate attorney, but when I had a complex transaction that I was the principal in, I sought outside counsel. For example, I was the CEO and one of the owners of After Midnite Radio, which I sold to Premiere Radio Networks in 1997. As CEO of that company and as an attorney, you could have assumed that I could have handled everything involved in that transaction. While I was primary negotiator of the purchase price, I hired outside counsel to work with other aspects of the deal like tax issues – because I wanted an absolute expert to assist me in that area.
For that same reason I don’t think other people should be representing themselves. Talent is in this business because they can turn on a microphone and create magic. That is their core competency. It would be a rare individual who could do that, as well as stay on top of new opportunities, industry trends and negotiating strategy.
There’s a second aspect of it, also. I have met a few creative people who are good negotiators. They understand radio and the radio business. They read LARadio.com; they read the trades on a daily basis and really understand the business. But there’s also something else, there’s something to the fact that you go in there and you have a certain relationship with your Program Director or General Manager, and you’re trying to work together creatively and productively. It can often times be uncomfortable. It’s tough to put yourself in a position of negotiating with someone with whom you need to have a continuing positive working relationship.
Don: Everybody hates to go in there and ask for money.
Eric: Yes, you tend to be your own worst advocate. I’ve experienced it myself and almost everyone has had the experience. But it’s very difficult to be both an advocate and to be objective in your analysis of a situation when you are so emotionally involved. A good representative is not only an advocate for you, but also is objective enough to realistically help you assess a given situation or opportunity.
Don: Do you believe it is helpful to read books on negotiation, like Herb Cohen’s You Can Negotiate Anything?
Eric: That’s interesting that you bring up Herb Cohen. Let me share a side story before I answer. You know I started my career in 1984 as an attorney for Mutual Broadcasting -- Mutual’s biggest star at that time was Larry King. The very first talent deal I ever worked on was Larry King’s contract. Herb Cohen was Larry King’s best friend, and Larry King would always cite Herb Cohen’s You Can Negotiate Anything book. Mutual Broadcasting’s contract granted to companies all rights to Larry King in every medium, and Larry was exclusive to Mutual. So when it became time to negotiate his contract, the President of Mutual, Jack Clements, didn’t want to give Larry a raise. So Larry has Herb Cohen call me, and he says “Listen, you don’t have any money, but can you at least do us a favor? He has a shot at doing some new TV deal. It’s with an upstart. It’s with a company that hasn’t launched yet; they want to do something out of Washington.” I went to the President of Mutual and relayed this information. He said “Never heard of this upstart company; they’re not in business yet. It’ll fold before it even gets on the air. But if giving Larry permission to do this deal will get our deal renewed or extended without any more money, do it...!”
Ten years later, I’m at La Costa Spa with Norm Pattiz where Larry King’s on a treadmill recovering from a recent heart attack saying “Listen, I got to get healthy again. You know I love radio; I’ve been with you a number of years, but I’m at a point now at CNN where I am making so many millions and millions of dollars so I just can’t do radio.” A decision by the President of the Company to save the cost of a well-deserved raise led to the opportunity of a lifetime for Larry King. It was also an interesting lesson in not understanding new media – which CNN clearly was at that time. But to answer your original question, I don’t read books on negotiating. Those books are based on the gamesmanship and science of negotiating, and I just don’t believe in that as a philosophy.
Don: Give us a negotiating tip.
Eric: The one constant in negotiation is understanding the concept of leverage. Because the people can change, the personalities can change, management styles change, corporate consolidation, etc., there’s a lot of different factors. But the one constant is you must have the ability to step back and objectively assess leverage. Then you will be successful in any negotiation you do. Because there is nothing more important than understanding just how much leverage you have versus how much leverage the party you’re negotiating with has. The more leverage you have, the more you’re gong to be able to dictate the outcome of the negotiation, and you can’t get away from that.
Don: Do you have a favorite lesson you learned about deal making?
Eric: There was a point where Westwood One had to sell its radio stations, and it was at a time in the early ‘90s when no one was getting financed to buy stations. I heard there was an entrepreneur in New York who was interested in buying an AM, and on a lark, I went to NY to meet him. Into the room walks now New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. At the time he was a Wall Street businessman, and he said he was prepared to make an offer for WNEW-AM and was prepared to write a check for the station on the spot. We talked for an hour and we came to terms. You know, selling a radio station, it’s a big asset, it’s a big deal, and it can take months and months. Michael Bloomberg said, “Now that we’ve agreed on a handshake, I propose that your attorneys and my attorneys lock themselves in this board room and work it out, not just a letter of intent but until a full blown definitive agreement is signed. We can get it done by tomorrow morning. How does that sound?” I said, “it sounds good to me,” and so I stayed all night, and by the next morning we were done. We went from an initial meeting to a full-blown contract for a sale of a New York station in less than 24 hours. The lesson here is that it doesn’t have to take a lot of time to get a big deal done. Lawyers are notorious for dragging out the process. When you remove the gamesmanship, and both parties decide they want to get a deal done and say MAKE IT HAPPEN, it can be done. So in most of my deals I try to keep that in mind. Passage of time tends to work against achieving a win-win negotiating result.
Don: What about overcoming the specter of fear -- especially with bigger corporations — that an air talent has when approaching a negotiation?
Eric: I think you’re talking about circumstances where talent is not represented, because if you’re represented you should let that problem fall on the shoulders of your agent. But if you’re not represented it’s very easy to become consumed with the fear of losing one’s job, and the rhetoric of being thankful that you are even working in this crazy business. When I give advice to people who have to represent themselves, what I tell them to do is to sit down and take an inventory and list their accomplishments, list how they helped the station from their activities, how they’ve grown revenue, how they’ve grown ratings. There’s nothing like being able to walk in and say I was responsible for this revenue, I was responsible for this piece of new business, that new client. So you take an inventory and prepare a list of accomplishments. Send a memo beforehand or an email delineating your accomplishments. Have a list of topics and have that in hand when you go in to negotiate. Preparation helps overcome the fear. If you’re prepared you will be much more successful at negotiating with management.
Don: At what point in somebody’s life or career should they hire an agent?
Eric: I wish there were an easy answer to that question. I don’t think there is. Certainly economics comes into it. Purely on an economic basis, you have to ask yourself, “Do I feel that I get a return on my investment? Do I think that this agent is going to do the best for me in my next negotiation and will he return more to me than what I am compensating him?” However, it’s not just about the greater compensation. There are a lot of opportunities an agent can bring to you. There’s a lot of advice that a good agent can give you as far as career guidance strategizing, focusing you on the right path, providing an honest assessment of your talents. So there are a number of things a good agent can do for you other than bringing you more opportunities and negotiating for more compensation than you could probably get on your own. A good agent will sit down and weigh the pros and cons for you of using the services of an agent, and will also be truthful enough to say whether he can add any value to your career at that given point in time.
Don: So it’s more than just finding someone a job and negotiating a deal.
Eric: Those are two important aspects. Clients like Casey Kasem, Blair Garner, Hollywood Hamilton, Dave Koz, or John and Ken are all very successful and operate at a very high level. When I sit down with them, we strategize how do we retain your dominance and grow your franchise. So I take a look at revenues. I take a look at affiliates. I take a look at ancillary operations as if their program was a company we are running. It takes a lot more time than just negotiating a deal and moving on.
That’s my niche; that’s my business. That’s why I don’t take on too many clients. My ideal client is one who wants to build a business out of his career. That is rewarding for me. Just for an example, take Rockline. Having the opportunity to consult with Bob Coburn, to work with him, and to have assisted him in buying the Rockline program from Premiere, and consulting him on actually owning and running the program he hosted for twenty years, it’s a great feeling. To help him be able to own the program, and not just host it, I just find that incredibly rewarding.
Don: What have you found most satisfying during the first 20 years of your career?
Eric: Helping build big corporations like Westwood One, being on the Board of Premiere, serving as COO of National Media, a New York Stock Exchange direct response television company, and serving as CEO of Buyitnow.com were tremendous learning experiences. It was also ego gratifying being able to attain certain positions at a fairly young age. But what I am doing now, working one on one with talent, is more rewarding. I am doing what I want. It is as hard as I’ve ever worked, but it’s enjoyable and there’s nothing like helping someone achieve a dream.
For some clients I have helped them achieve financial independence and it’s a great feeling. For others it has been about getting them launched, helping them find their focus and begin what will be very exciting and successful careers. It’s hard to get those kinds of feelings in corporate America now, but on a one on one basis with clients there’s more personal gratification.
It is also incredibly rewarding to work with folks who are absolutely the best at what they do, and have proved it over the long haul. I am fortunate to be associated with LARP’s like Casey Kasem, Bob Kingsley, Don Burns, Talaya Trigueros, Gary Moore, Blair Garner, John Kobylt and Ken Chiampou, Bob Coburn, Dave Koz, Lisa Stanley and Hollywood Hamilton, Brian Whitman and Whitney Allen – they have demonstrated over time they are the very cream of the crop.
Don: On a more personal level, what are some of your hobbies?
Eric: Tennis, learning to play the saxophone, and spending time at my place in Cabo San Lucas when I get the opportunity.
Don: How about your favorites – favorite book, movie, song, radio station, format, genre of music, TV show, restaurant, drink, color?
Eric: My favorite book is anything published by the “For Dummies” people — they are all classics. Favorite movie is Shawshank Redemption. Favorite song is Badlands by Bruce Springsteen. Favorite station was Pirate Radio when it was on the air. I associate it with a lot of good memories. As for formats, I listen to most formats. My favorite genres of music are Classic Soul and R&B. On TV it’s The Shield, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and West Wing. My favorite restaurant is Pearl Dragon in Pacific Palisades. I like those vodka martinis, and my favorite color is Sea Foam Green.
Don: What’s the funniest thing that ever happened to you?
Eric: None of the outrageously funny moments can be shared in print, but many were shared with fellow radio people.
Don: How about one last bit of advice for people in the business, both talent and management?
Eric: One word: Focus.