Don: Everybody hates to go in there and ask for money.
Eric: Yes, you tend to be your own worst advocate. I’ve experienced it myself and almost everyone has had the experience. But it’s very difficult to be both an advocate and to be objective in your analysis of a situation when you are so emotionally involved. A good representative is not only an advocate for you, but also is objective enough to realistically help you assess a given situation or opportunity.
Don: Do you believe it is helpful to read books on negotiation, like Herb Cohen’s You Can Negotiate Anything?
Eric: That’s interesting that you bring up Herb Cohen. Let me share a side story before I answer. You know I started my career in 1984 as an attorney for Mutual Broadcasting -- Mutual’s biggest star at that time was Larry King. The very first talent deal I ever worked on was Larry King’s contract. Herb Cohen was Larry King’s best friend, and Larry King would always cite Herb Cohen’s You Can Negotiate Anything book. Mutual Broadcasting’s contract granted to companies all rights to Larry King in every medium, and Larry was exclusive to Mutual. So when it became time to negotiate his contract, the President of Mutual, Jack Clements, didn’t want to give Larry a raise. So Larry has Herb Cohen call me, and he says “Listen, you don’t have any money, but can you at least do us a favor? He has a shot at doing some new TV deal. It’s with an upstart. It’s with a company that hasn’t launched yet; they want to do something out of Washington.” I went to the President of Mutual and relayed this information. He said “Never heard of this upstart company; they’re not in business yet. It’ll fold before it even gets on the air. But if giving Larry permission to do this deal will get our deal renewed or extended without any more money, do it...!”
Ten years later, I’m at La Costa Spa with Norm Pattiz where Larry King’s on a treadmill recovering from a recent heart attack saying “Listen, I got to get healthy again. You know I love radio; I’ve been with you a number of years, but I’m at a point now at CNN where I am making so many millions and millions of dollars so I just can’t do radio.” A decision by the President of the Company to save the cost of a well-deserved raise led to the opportunity of a lifetime for Larry King. It was also an interesting lesson in not understanding new media – which CNN clearly was at that time. But to answer your original question, I don’t read books on negotiating. Those books are based on the gamesmanship and science of negotiating, and I just don’t believe in that as a philosophy.
Don: Give us a negotiating tip.
Eric: The one constant in negotiation is understanding the concept of leverage. Because the people can change, the personalities can change, management styles change, corporate consolidation, etc., there’s a lot of different factors. But the one constant is you must have the ability to step back and objectively assess leverage. Then you will be successful in any negotiation you do. Because there is nothing more important than understanding just how much leverage you have versus how much leverage the party you’re negotiating with has. The more leverage you have, the more you’re gong to be able to dictate the outcome of the negotiation, and you can’t get away from that.
Don: Do you have a favorite lesson you learned about deal making?
Eric: There was a point where Westwood One had to sell its radio stations, and it was at a time in the early ‘90s when no one was getting financed to buy stations. I heard there was an entrepreneur in New York who was interested in buying an AM, and on a lark, I went to NY to meet him. Into the room walks now New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. At the time he was a Wall Street businessman, and he said he was prepared to make an offer for WNEW-AM and was prepared to write a check for the station on the spot. We talked for an hour and we came to terms. You know, selling a radio station, it’s a big asset, it’s a big deal, and it can take months and months. Michael Bloomberg said, “Now that we’ve agreed on a handshake, I propose that your attorneys and my attorneys lock themselves in this board room and work it out, not just a letter of intent but until a full blown definitive agreement is signed. We can get it done by tomorrow morning. How does that sound?” I said, “it sounds good to me,” and so I stayed all night, and by the next morning we were done. We went from an initial meeting to a full-blown contract for a sale of a New York station in less than 24 hours. The lesson here is that it doesn’t have to take a lot of time to get a big deal done. Lawyers are notorious for dragging out the process. When you remove the gamesmanship, and both parties decide they want to get a deal done and say MAKE IT HAPPEN, it can be done. So in most of my deals I try to keep that in mind. Passage of time tends to work against achieving a win-win negotiating result.
Don: What about overcoming the specter of fear -- especially with bigger corporations — that an air talent has when approaching a negotiation?
Eric: I think you’re talking about circumstances where talent is not represented, because if you’re represented you should let that problem fall on the shoulders of your agent. But if you’re not represented it’s very easy to become consumed with the fear of losing one’s job, and the rhetoric of being thankful that you are even working in this crazy business. When I give advice to people who have to represent themselves, what I tell them to do is to sit down and take an inventory and list their accomplishments, list how they helped the station from their activities, how they’ve grown revenue, how they’ve grown ratings. There’s nothing like being able to walk in and say I was responsible for this revenue, I was responsible for this piece of new business, that new client. So you take an inventory and prepare a list of accomplishments. Send a memo beforehand or an email delineating your accomplishments. Have a list of topics and have that in hand when you go in to negotiate. Preparation helps overcome the fear. If you’re prepared you will be much more successful at negotiating with management.
Don: At what point in somebody’s life or career should they hire an agent?
Eric: I wish there were an easy answer to that question. I don’t think there is. Certainly economics comes into it. Purely on an economic basis, you have to ask yourself, “Do I feel that I get a return on my investment? Do I think that this agent is going to do the best for me in my next negotiation and will he return more to me than what I am compensating him?” However, it’s not just about the greater compensation. There are a lot of opportunities an agent can bring to you. There’s a lot of advice that a good agent can give you as far as career guidance strategizing, focusing you on the right path, providing an honest assessment of your talents. So there are a number of things a good agent can do for you other than bringing you more opportunities and negotiating for more compensation than you could probably get on your own. A good agent will sit down and weigh the pros and cons for you of using the services of an agent, and will also be truthful enough to say whether he can add any value to your career at that given point in time.
Don: So it’s more than just finding someone a job and negotiating a deal.
Eric: Those are two important aspects. Clients like Casey Kasem, Blair Garner, Hollywood Hamilton, Dave Koz, or John and Ken are all very successful and operate at a very high level. When I sit down with them, we strategize how do we retain your dominance and grow your franchise. So I take a look at revenues. I take a look at affiliates. I take a look at ancillary operations as if their program was a company we are running. It takes a lot more time than just negotiating a deal and moving on.
That’s my niche; that’s my business. That’s why I don’t take on too many clients. My ideal client is one who wants to build a business out of his career. That is rewarding for me. Just for an example, take Rockline. Having the opportunity to consult with Bob Coburn, to work with him, and to have assisted him in buying the Rockline program from Premiere, and consulting him on actually owning and running the program he hosted for twenty years, it’s a great feeling. To help him be able to own the program, and not just host it, I just find that incredibly rewarding.
Don: What have you found most satisfying during the first 20 years of your career?
Eric: Helping build big corporations like Westwood One, being on the Board of Premiere, serving as COO of National Media, a New York Stock Exchange direct response television company, and serving as CEO of Buyitnow.com were tremendous learning experiences. It was also ego gratifying being able to attain certain positions at a fairly young age. But what I am doing now, working one on one with talent, is more rewarding. I am doing what I want. It is as hard as I’ve ever worked, but it’s enjoyable and there’s nothing like helping someone achieve a dream.
For some clients I have helped them achieve financial independence and it’s a great feeling. For others it has been about getting them launched, helping them find their focus and begin what will be very exciting and successful careers. It’s hard to get those kinds of feelings in corporate America now, but on a one on one basis with clients there’s more personal gratification.
It is also incredibly rewarding to work with folks who are absolutely the best at what they do, and have proved it over the long haul. I am fortunate to be associated with LARP’s like Casey Kasem, Bob Kingsley, Don Burns, Talaya Trigueros, Gary Moore, Blair Garner, John Kobylt and Ken Chiampou, Bob Coburn, Dave Koz, Lisa Stanley and Hollywood Hamilton, Brian Whitman and Whitney Allen – they have demonstrated over time they are the very cream of the crop.
Don: On a more personal level, what are some of your hobbies?
Eric: Tennis, learning to play the saxophone, and spending time at my place in Cabo San Lucas when I get the opportunity.
Don: How about your favorites – favorite book, movie, song, radio station, format, genre of music, TV show, restaurant, drink, color?
Eric: My favorite book is anything published by the “For Dummies” people — they are all classics. Favorite movie is Shawshank Redemption. Favorite song is Badlands by Bruce Springsteen. Favorite station was Pirate Radio when it was on the air. I associate it with a lot of good memories. As for formats, I listen to most formats. My favorite genres of music are Classic Soul and R&B. On TV it’s The Shield, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and West Wing. My favorite restaurant is Pearl Dragon in Pacific Palisades. I like those vodka martinis, and my favorite color is Sea Foam Green.
Don: What’s the funniest thing that ever happened to you?
Eric: None of the outrageously funny moments can be shared in print, but many were shared with fellow radio people.
Don: How about one last bit of advice for people in the business, both talent and management?
Eric: One word: Focus.
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